Jeep TDI

[Calin.Macrinici]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

Does anyone know that status of this TDI build? I've tried emailing HPA but I dont get any replies back. They've been into the project for a while now and I just wanted to hear whether they think its going to be worthwhile to develop a conversion kit like they originally planned.

I emailed them and they replied a while later with this:

Thank you for your email. We will have the kit packages ready for early September once we have had the month of August to shake down the rig and proof the BOM's.
We will offer a do it your self package and one with the complete engine included and also onsite installations.
I don't yet have all the costs and power numbers before me, but the mounts, and gearbox adaptor and exhaust/after cooler package is aimed at being an affordable solution.
The engine is so quiet and such a natural fit for this Jeep it is amazing.
The PD diesel of Volkswagen is so easy to flash tune, it should offer the Jeep enthusiast a solid long range back country option.
We will update our homepage with these details and the entire build process will be covered by JP in the next weeks.

This was last week, so I guess it's all good?

[JonnieBlaze]

Ah, very nice. Thanks a lot for the reply. This is pretty exiciting news. I found one company that wants $4,000 for the conversion kit and another $3-4,000 for the motor (4bt only). I'm really hoping HPA's conversion kit is a bit more 'affordable' than that. Only time will tell.

[Calin.Macrinici]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

Ah, very nice. Thanks a lot for the reply. This is pretty exiciting news. I found one company that wants $4,000 for the conversion kit and another $3-4,000 for the motor (4bt only). I'm really hoping HPA's conversion kit is a bit more 'affordable' than that. Only time will tell.

While $4,000 for the conversion kit may be(?) on the expensive side I don't think you can expect a TDI motor to be cheaper than 3-4 grand, can you? I haven't talked to a VW dealership about a new (crate) one, I don't even know if you can get them for the conversion years' range (since it is either the previous generation or the one before that), but if you can, I expect it to be somewhere higher than $8 grand. As far as 2nd hand ones I am really not sure about cost or availability -- probably the HPA guys are better at sourcing them than we are? Until more info is available (maybe next issue of JP magazine?) the jury is still out on this.

[JonnieBlaze]

True, $4,000 for the kit may not be 'expensive', but for me personally it is. As for the motor this other company offered, it was $3-4,000 for a rebuilt used one. Where I live I can pick up an entire 1996 Jetta TDI with only 150,000 miles for $2,000. So if you just scrap the rest of the car the engine cost you 2 grand, but if you part the car out the cost of the motor just dropped significantly. That'll be my plan when HPA releases more detail about the kit and pricing.

I'm not sure how long a TDI motor can last but since its deisel I'm guessing at 150,000 miles that motor still has several thousand miles left in it. But you could spend a little more initially, buy a more expensive Jetta with lower miles, then part it out. Maybe that'll bring the cost of a TDI motor with decent milage (say less than 100,000) down to 2 grand or so?

[Calin.Macrinici]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

True, $4,000 for the kit may not be 'expensive', but for me personally it is. As for the motor this other company offered, it was $3-4,000 for a rebuilt used one. Where I live I can pick up an entire 1996 Jetta TDI with only 150,000 miles for $2,000. So if you just scrap the rest of the car the engine cost you 2 grand, but if you part the car out the cost of the motor just dropped significantly. That'll be my plan when HPA releases more detail about the kit and pricing.

I'm not sure how long a TDI motor can last but since its deisel I'm guessing at 150,000 miles that motor still has several thousand miles left in it. But you could spend a little more initially, buy a more expensive Jetta with lower miles, then part it out. Maybe that'll bring the cost of a TDI motor with decent milage (say less than 100,000) down to 2 grand or so?

Haven't thought of getting the used car and part it, that is an excellent point. However, based on their comments you may need a newer motor -- not sure how compatible the old ones will be with the conversion, they are saying "We chose to use the late model PD diesel from the 2003-2006 Golf/Jetta/Beetle". If it works for older ones what you say may work (and you get points for also scoring the radiator ), if you really need a 2003-06 one there may be issues with finding one at an acceptable price -- especially if you have to scrap the rest. Parting it may again solve that problem.

I am also curious about the computers and electronics, especially if you are converting a newer Jeep that may be an issue.

[TheOtherSide]

Alright... I'll chime in for a minute here.

Here's the real scoop on the TDI motors... considering I've spent many years wrenching at VW dealers... it's accurate.

1st - Don't be confused between TD and TDI. HUGE difference
TD - Turbo Diesel - from the 1980's and into the 90's... also the Eco-Diesel... has an external pump, high compression... this is NOT a motor you want for a conversion that requires torque to move a Jeep.

TDI - Turbo Direct Injection... Doesn't mean turbo diesel injection. First year in North America was 1997... and isn't the typical motor that people use for conversions until 1999.5 when the A4 body Jetta & Golf came with the ALH engine code. Still an external pump. Lower compression and direct injection and not needing to glow the motor until it gets closer to zero degrees C. So 1999.5 to 2003 is a great motor... mega reliable. In 2004 VW put out the Pumpe Deuse (PD)... with internal fuel injectors operated by the camshaft. Great motor... lots of power, less fuel economy and the problem of the injectors vibrating around in the head to the point where you sometimes have to replace the head to correct smoking & driveability concerns. Great motor... but has it's shortcomings which is why VW dumped it for the new Clean-Diesel.

So.... long story short... the 99.5-03 ALH is going to be the cheapest conversion motor.... has better fuel economy and long term reliability. May just have to put a pump on it with some high kms.

How long will these motors last? Can never put a number on it. I've seen 500,000kms... and I've seen some can it at 100,000km all due to maintenance. So if the motor cans it... don't blame VW... they're super solid.

Would I consider a "crate" motor? VW sells Reman motors.... good price... not a bad option, but really... you should do the conversion, work out the bugs and consider a new or reman motor at a later time after it's working like a charm. If you buy a reman motor from VW, you'll still need the donor vehicle for all the parts to do the swap.

Oh... and a HUGE tip for you. Don't buy a motor swap from anyone.... buy a complete and running car... and part it out. The amount of money you'll spend on missing parts that your swap didn't come with will make you broke!! Keep the car until the swap is totally done... and you won't be missing anything! AND.... buy a manual transmission vehicle. VW's have serious communication between the ECM & TCM... so if you go Auto, you'll have to do some tinkering to let the ECM know the transmission is not there etc.

Hope that helps... and gives you some things to think about.

[Calin.Macrinici]

Originally Posted by TheOtherSide

Alright... I'll chime in for a minute here.

Here's the real scoop on the TDI motors... considering I've spent many years wrenching at VW dealers... it's accurate.

...

Thank you! That's why I started this thread asking for opinions I had a 99 Golf TDI for 6 years (traded it in for the Jeep, oh the irony!) and I loved it. Never wrenched it though, apart from oil changes I didn't touched it (bought it new, worked almost perfectly for all the years I've owned it). The problems with it had nothing to do with the engine, but with the electronics sorrounding it -- seemingly even the power windows switches were tied into the computer.

So again, good info, food for thought, thank you!

[JonnieBlaze]

Originally Posted by Calin.Macrinici

...based on their comments you may need a newer motor -- not sure how compatible the old ones will be with the conversion, they are saying "We chose to use the late model PD diesel from the 2003-2006 Golf/Jetta/Beetle"......... if you really need a 2003-06 one there may be issues with finding one at an acceptable price -- especially if you have to scrap the rest.

Good point...I missed that part about them using the newer motor. That would cause a problem unless you could find a VW donor car that had been wrecked in the rear...that would probably still be cheap. Otherwise you're right, it'll probably be costly to find a used car that new for a cheap price.

Originally Posted by TheOtherSide

Lower compression and direct injection and not needing to glow the motor until it gets closer to zero degrees C. So 1999.5 to 2003 is a great motor... mega reliable.

So does that mean if I park my car overnight and the temperature drops below freezing I have to have a block warmer plugged in to keep the motor warm? What if you have no access to electricity....

[JonnieBlaze]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

So does that mean if I park my car overnight and the temperature drops below freezing I have to have a block warmer plugged in to keep the motor warm? What if you have no access to electricity....

Never mind. I just read on TDIClub.com about having to turn the key on for a few seconds to let the glow plugs heat up before actually trying to start the engine. I also just read that you won't get any interior heat in the vehicle unless you are moving. Thats unfortunate...haha. Guess if I ever do a TDI swap I won't have to get up early to go start my car in the winter and let it warm up....I'll just have to freeze the first few minutes I'm driving.

[Calin.Macrinici]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

Never mind. I just read on TDIClub.com about having to turn the key on for a few seconds to let the glow plugs heat up before actually trying to start the engine.

You got that right. My first diesel Golf (1981) actually had a button much like a lighter that had to be depressed for a few seconds to turn the glow plug on before starting the engine in the winter.

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

I also just read that you won't get any interior heat in the vehicle unless you are moving. Thats unfortunate...haha. Guess if I ever do a TDI swap I won't have to get up early to go start my car in the winter and let it warm up....I'll just have to freeze the first few minutes I'm driving.

Well, the diesel engines do warm up quite slowly. That's why most of the diesel Golfs in the last few years came with standard seat warmers - priceless in the winter